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CV Turnouts - take 2
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joef
Wed Oct 31 2007, 03:15PM


Registered Member #3
Joined: Wed Dec 08 2004, 09:01PM
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2112
There's been some discussion over on the MR forum around how to use CV turnout ties and some of the Fast Tracks turnout tools to build a turnout.

So to help answer some questions, I'm going to build up one of these turnouts, take some stills, and post them on here.

To be continued ...

P.S. In the meantime, here's some other discussion we've had on here around the CV turnout tie kits.

[ Edited Wed Oct 31 2007, 03:28PM ]

Joe Fugate
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bn7026
Thu Nov 01 2007, 07:25AM
Registered Member #239
Joined: Tue Nov 15 2005, 06:35AM
Location: Perth - Australia
Posts: 36
I'd be a little interested in seeing your results. I've installed on on a diorama and was mostly happy with the results though would do things a little differently.

I have decided to use this system and plan to start installing when I start tracklaying in the next week or two.

I'm not happy with the throwbar arrangement (doesn't look right to me) and am going to try replacing the adjacent ties with normal ties and using the proto 87 throwbars.

We'll see how it goes.

Regards
Tim

Tim Shenton
Perth - Western Australia
NCE DCC user.
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rghammill
Thu Nov 01 2007, 06:01PM

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Joined: Thu Aug 17 2006, 07:42PM
Posts: 166
I'm working on a throwbar replacement too. I have a few parts on order, as soon as they arrive I will complete the turnout I'm working on and post some pictures.

It's been taking a long while for me to work out all of the details on how I want to put these together, but I think I'm almost there...

Randy

[ Edited Thu Nov 01 2007, 06:07PM ]

Randy Hammill

New Britain Station: Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1949-1953
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joef
Thu Nov 01 2007, 06:21PM


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Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2112
Randy:

Excellent, I plan to post some photos soon as well. It sounds like by putting our heads together we should get a really cool way to make reliable and great looking handlaid turnouts that come together more quickly (and more dummy-proof) than just pure handlaid turnouts.

[ Edited Thu Nov 01 2007, 06:21PM ]

Joe Fugate
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shoggoth43
Fri Nov 02 2007, 03:51PM
Registered Member #646
Joined: Tue May 01 2007, 07:19PM
Posts: 85
I've been hoping you might get back to this. I'm still on the fence with what to do. I'm pretty sure handlaying at least the switches is the way to go. I'm at odds with how to blend the flextrack or CV track with the switches. I'm really not sure how to do the Fast Tracks stuff and have the tieplate detail without going all out using the Proto87 stores stuff. That seems like a LOT of work.

Given that the track height will probably end up a little below shoulder height I'm concerned that it will be a little in your face and obvious that stuff is missing. I'd also like to run the rails through the switches in as large a length as possible to make things "flow" a little better. Since I'll be doing a ~2x4' modular style approach this should be reasonably feasible.

Are you planning to try a few different methods regarding cast VS. built up frogs? Andy has suggested I might be able to use his planed points and solder some wire alongside them to get a continous closure rail, which might work very well since you wouldn't need to notch the stock rails.

In any event, this should be useful and very enlightening. I'm getting to a point where I might be able to start placing iron soon so the timing on this is great.

-
Chris
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rghammill
Fri Nov 02 2007, 06:27PM

Registered Member #463
Joined: Thu Aug 17 2006, 07:42PM
Posts: 166
The CV turnouts blend very well with other flex track, especially the Microengineering. One bit of advice I had read as well is that you can strip the rail from your flex track to use for your turnouts to make sure the rail matches as well.

The CV turnouts come with cast points if you get the full kit. These are what I'm using. They are hinged (as on the prototype), and have a small hole for attaching a feeder wire.

I'm also doing things a bit differently, in that I'm planning on not using rail joiners at all on my layout. So like the rest of the layout, I'm going to solder brass joint bars at the joint between the points and the rail (again, like on the prototype). I'm sure this will also solder the points to the rail as well, in effect making it continous rail, but it will still look like it's hinged.

Randy

Randy Hammill

New Britain Station: Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1949-1953
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joef
Sat Nov 03 2007, 01:35PM


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Joined: Wed Dec 08 2004, 09:01PM
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2112
Okay, here's the first post to discuss how to use the CVT tie and detail kits to do a turnout, but to use PC ties to fasten down the rails. I prefer to use PC ties rather than the barge cement recommended by the Central Valley instructions, because I want those turnout rails to stay put!

So here's a diagram for the #6 code 83 CVT ties, showing how I rearrange things to make way for the PC ties.



(Click image to enlarge)

Also, just as an FYI, you can't use the Fast Tracks jig and drop the turnout onto the CVT ties. Just to check if this was possible, I did an overlay of the two turnout diagrams (available as free downloads from the Fast Tracks and the Central Valley web sites).



(Click to enlarge)

It would be great if Fast Tracks made jig that was compatible with the CVT kits, but unfortunately they don't. Oh well ...

In the next post, we'll take a close look at the basic CVT tie and details kit, and see how I actually go about cutting out and replacing the plastic ties with the PC ties.

Joe Fugate
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joef
Sat Nov 03 2007, 03:38PM


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Joined: Wed Dec 08 2004, 09:01PM
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2112
Next, here's some closeup photos of the CVT tie strip for a number 6 code 83 left hand turnout.



(Click this image to get a closeup view with all the details!)

And if you look closely, you can see the tie strip has some great tie plate and spike detail, consistent with that found on MicroEngineering track.



(Click photo to enlarge)

And here's a super-closeup view so you can appreciate all the great tie plate and spike detail:


(Click photo to enlarge)

The base of the rail fits right down into the tie plate slots, automatically gauging the rail into position. How dummy proof is that?

Notice also the ties are closer together over the frog area, just like on the prototype. Also note that in the point area, the headblock ties are missing -- that's because the CVT detail kit has a special headblock casting that you can add and it includes an operating switch stand on two headblock ties.

In my case, if I want to follow actual SP practice (which I might as well do if I'm going through all the trouble to upgrade a turnout), then I need to use a single headblock tie. As we go through this exercise, I will be following the SP practice of a single headblock tie, just so you know.

Note the tie strip has flash on the tie ends and around some ties that need to be cleaned off. I first clean up the flash on the tie strip. In the next post, we'll discuss how I remove some plastic ties to make way for the PC ties.

[ Edited Sat Nov 03 2007, 03:39PM ]

Joe Fugate
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joef
Sat Nov 03 2007, 08:24PM


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Joined: Wed Dec 08 2004, 09:01PM
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2112
I have cleaned the flash off the ties and ran a 1/4" wide strip of masking tape down the tie strip.



(Click the image to enlarge)

This masking tape holds the ties in place while I pull out select plastic ties and replace them with PC ties, as I have done in the photo below.


(Click image to enlarge)

I also used one of the long plastic ties a pulled out on the frog end as the new single headblock tie, and I took the one normal tie that I replaced with the PC tie and placed it across from the headblock tie. Between the headblock tie and this normal tie is where the PC throwbar will go.

Also note the PC tie that's 10 ties to the right of the long headblock tie. That tie has copper foil that connects the closure rails electrically with the stock rails. Since this turnout will use continuous points, the points and closure rail will be all one piece, guaranteeing that the points are always electrically powered.

Also notice I have filed off all the foil on the PC ties except where the tie plates would be. Once these ties are painted later, they will blend in more with the plastic ties and it will be a lot harder to spot the PC ties. I used the tieplate detail on each of the removed plastic ties to guide me as to where to file off the copper foil on each tie.

The placement of all the PC ties around the frog area will ensure the frog and guard rails are held firmly in place with solder, making for a very solid turnout that won't have rails that shift later, unlike what can happen with hand spiking or gluing down the rails.

One other point -- the PC ties (got 1/16" HO PC ties from Fast Tracks) are slightly thinner than the CVT plastic ties, so I shim the bottom ends of the PC ties with two layers of masking tape. Here's a photo to illustrate how this is done:



(Click image to enlarge)

If there was a Fast Tracks jig that matched the CVT ties, this extra fiddling would not be necessary! As it is, we're stuck doing a "poor man's jig" using the CVT tie strip to help align the rails.

Next up is preparing the straight stock rail and soldering it on!

Joe Fugate
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shoggoth43
Sat Nov 03 2007, 10:34PM
Registered Member #646
Joined: Tue May 01 2007, 07:19PM
Posts: 85
joef wrote ...


If there was a Fast Tracks jig that matched the CVT ties, this extra fiddling would not be necessary! As it is, we're stuck doing a "poor man's jig" using the CVT tie strip to help align the rails.



Would a Railway Engineering turnout work better? http://www.railwayeng.com/

Admittedly they aren't really roll your own kind of turnouts. I'm kind of curious as to which standards the fast track jigs are compared to the CV kits. The rails seem to match on both templates though, so at least they're on the same page with that.

I don't suppose there's really any way to make a curved turnout using the fast tracks jig except to buy the curved jig in the first place. I know the CV kits can be curved without too much effort. From what I've read the frog is typically a cast piece and is straight in even a curved turnout but I'd imagine a curved turnout and frog would look nice.

You mentioned the continuous closure rails on these, how are you planning on dealing with the frog and its wiring? A simple gap just at/before the frog itself?

-
Chris
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