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| DCC University (was: MRC DCC) | ||
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| Author | Post | ||
| NYNH&H |
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 Registered Member #552 Joined: Mon Nov 13 2006, 02:17PM: posts: 349 | Guys, all the systems have slots for locos, they just call them different things. They have to have memory in order to figure out what to do, and what commands to send to what locos. Some just dispatch/ steal/ transfer/ aquire differently then others. Jack, very well said. Charlie, your issues with slots are errant operators, and you need to make them do it correctly, then there isn't a problem. Also, like you said, JMRI makes it easy to whack stuff out of slots. For the F units, why not basic consist the front two? A sound only decoder and a light/ motor decoder can't have overlapping functions, so the functions would work just fine. Can't you remap f9 in the soundtrax decoder? Denny, NCE pushes you towards wizard-based programming, which it should not. Systems should always push towards normal programming with decimal, hex, or binary values put into a CV #. | ||
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| Brian Clogg |
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 Registered Member #228 Joined: Sun Oct 16 2005, 02:46AM: posts: 27 | Discussing which DCC system is best can be like discussing which religion is best yet I see 29 pages of intelligent informed discussion accompanied by curtesy and respect and devoid of rancour.I am impressed Brian Clogg Cariboo Western Railway | ||
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| Denny |
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  Registered Member #21 Joined: Thu Dec 09 2004, 07:20AM: posts: 404 | NYNH&H said ... Denny, NCE pushes you towards wizard-based programming, which it should not. Systems should always push towards normal programming with decimal, hex, or binary values put into a CV #. interesting point of view. but you forgot to explain WHY.  Denny Saronno, VA - Italy http://www.sp-coastline.com | ||
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| joef |
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   Registered Member #3 Joined: Wed Dec 08 2004, 09:01PM: posts: 2112 | denny said ... [1190372405=NYNH&H]Denny, NCE pushes you towards wizard-based programming, which it should not. Systems should always push towards normal programming with decimal, hex, or binary values put into a CV #. [/quote1190372405] interesting point of view. but you forgot to explain WHY. I would argue NCE still gives full access to the CVs, using decimal or binary -- as well as giving you some very cool wizard-based approaches. So NCE lets you have your choice, unlike some DCC systems. If you can use the wizard-based functions and get the behavior you want in much less time than fiddling with CVs, then why not use them? Understanding the CVs is a bit like understanding HTML markup. Some web developers will swear the only way to code a web page is by hand in notepad doing the HTML yourself ... while others like myself prefer to work in a WYSIWYG tool, and then just tweak the HTML now and then. Those who prefer notepad tend to call the WYSIWYG approach evil. Myself, I look at productivity and I will tell you when it comes to doing a snazzy web site, a WYSIWYG developer can run circles around a notepad hand coder.  Sure the notepad hand coded HTML may look more structured to the eye, and even will likely be ever-so-slightly more efficient, but I can guarantee the machine doesn't care and neither do most web surfers. It's not the HTML that slows down web sites -- it's the size of the graphics ... anyhow, I digress. The point is, once-in-a-while poking some value directly into a CV can be helpful, sure. But most of the time I find I can work in DecoderPro and my NCE system's wizards and I get exactly the behavior I want. In the final analysis, if it works well, then why not use the tools where I don't care what CV is what?  [ Edited Fri Sep 21 2007, 10:05AM ] Joe Fugate http://siskiyou-railfan.net - 200,000 hits and counting!  In video ... | ||
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| johncolley |
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 Registered Member #9 Joined: Wed Aug 10 2005, 02:18PM: posts: 102 | Another approach to MU'ing, if you will consider it. I have a Stewart GN- FT- AB,BA consist to which I gave all units the road number 424 abcd per GN practice. By using old credit cards (or the phony ones we get in the mail, which by the way make good shims) put under the wheels, I can isolate each unit. the first B unit is sound only so I program it with inertia for Accel/Decel set at "0". The other three units (powered/w/lights in the two "A"s) I set Accel/Decel at "10" with the last "A" reversed operation. Now there is a more realistic lag between throttle and motion. I also use a speed table to get the notching effect, and the Soundtraxx decoder has a built-in compensator gap between notches 4 and 5 as the FT's did. Go Rocky! jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA | ||
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| NYNH&H |
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| Registered Member #552 Joined: Mon Nov 13 2006, 02:17PM: posts: 349 | Joe, NCE does allow you to program the CVs normally, so its not as bad as a system like MRC where it is actually hard to get to normal programming, but not as good as a system like Digitrax that just gets you there driectly (although they should list ops mode before the useless programming track modes). As it has been mentioned, you have to know the CV values to troubleshoot, and so you know what is going on. It is fundamentally wrong to let a system reach into your locos and change values without you knowing what they are. NCE's binary does win some points though, for CV29. That is, no question about it, the best way to program CV29, as there is no number adding up like on Digitrax. HTML is a little different, as notepad coding requires a higher level of skill than WYSIWIG programs, wheras CV programming does not. Also, a web page is one thing, whereas the issue in CV programming is that a wizard is an interaction between the CS and decoder, without the owner knowing what is going on. | ||
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| jwils1 |
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| Registered Member #524 Joined: Fri Oct 13 2006, 08:35AM: posts: 83 | Okay Joe, I think I finally get it. You've got me convinced that NCE consisting is the way to go. And the use of nested consists is pretty neat. I'm sure that when I do start my 2nd layout (N scale) I will start out with a Power Cab. This looks like fun. I'm also tempted to convert my HO setup from Lenz to NCE! Question: During your operations, when needing to add helpers, do you have to bring your ProCab throttle to that location to set up the nested consist, since the 04pr don't do consisting? By the way I've tried nested consists on my Lenz and don't see any way to do it. No one on their Yahoo site seemed to know anything about doing it. It doesn't look possible unless there is some way of manuvering CVs to do it?? Jerry | ||
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| rghammill |
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 Registered Member #463 Joined: Thu Aug 17 2006, 07:42PM: posts: 165 | Programming an individual CV is very simple on the MRC: Press Prog Press Enter Enter the loco address Press Enter Press Enter 4 times to skip the next 4 options. Now it will prompt you for the CV#. just enter the CV you want to change, press enter and input the value you want and press enter. All done. The only issue I have (which is extremely minor considering how often I change CVs) is that you have to go past the SV, Acc, Dec, and TV first. What are these? Start Voltage, Acceleration rate, deceleration rate and top voltage. These are what MRC found to be the most changed CVs, so they prompt you automatically instead of you having to know which CVs they are. For a lot of people out there this is very helpful, and probably the majority of their changes would be to these CVs. But, it would be nice if they would turn off the option of stepping through this wizard. All things considered, though, pressing enter 4 extra times is a non-issue once you get used to it. CV29 is configured automatically for you by the throttle, although you can do it manually if you need to as well. I had to do this once when a decoder I had installed was going the wrong direction. And yes, all throttles have slots. I just haven't read about any other systems other than Digitrax having issues with theirs. User error or not, it shouldn't be an issue. Randy Randy Hammill New Britain Station: Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1949-1953 | ||
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| rghammill |
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| Registered Member #463 Joined: Thu Aug 17 2006, 07:42PM: posts: 165 | Actually, it appears that MRC is responding nicely to its customers. The new wireless throttle has a button called Prog CV on main. Press this button and you can immediately enter the CV you want to modify for the locomotive you are currently operating. So that bypasses the wizard quite effectively. Randy Randy Hammill New Britain Station: Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1949-1953 | ||
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| Denny |
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| Registered Member #21 Joined: Thu Dec 09 2004, 07:20AM: posts: 404 | NYNH&H said ... As it has been mentioned, you have to know the CV values to troubleshoot, and so you know what is going on. It is fundamentally wrong to let a system reach into your locos and change values without you knowing what they are. ok, I know what values go in what CVs and therefore, I can troubleshoot. that said, I still prefer doing consists in a "wizard" style because 1) it's easier; 2) it's FASTER; 3) any crew can do it if taught with basic info; 4) I can still read back CVs IF something goes wrong You're talking about troubleshooting like if you always have failure in your programming and always need to make sure you inserted the right values. and it's just a hobby after all  [ Edited Mon Sep 24 2007, 08:15AM ] Denny Saronno, VA - Italy http://www.sp-coastline.com | ||
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