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| bear creek |
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   Registered Member #305 Joined: Wed Feb 01 2006, 01:57PM: posts: 342 | Why Joe, I'm surprised at you! Weren't you the fellow who was trumpeting how programing tracks weren't necessary?  As far as consists go I have issues: o with two RS-2's I want the head light on in the lead unit while going forward. But I don't want it one while backing up (dimmed is good too). Conversely do I want the back up light on in the rear unit while backing up? I certainly don't want it on when moving forward (unless I feel like examining the rear of the lead unit in detail. Some of the new decoders let one do directional assignment of functions based on consist address. But none of my older decoders work that way. I'm ever so grateful for the opportunity to spend my copious time in the train room replacing decoders. Oh yeah, then there's my A-B-A lash up of F7 Stewarts. The two A units have motors while the B unit has a Soundtrax DSX decoder. Now I get interesting problems with turning on and off headlights and gyro lights when the digitrax univesal consist is used because the DSX has to be the lead unit for the horns and bell to operate correctly. So to turn lights on and off requires selecting the A unit of interest and doing the light thing there. What a freakin' pain in the b*tt. So I set all three decoder addresses to the same address. Now the horn and bell work ok. But I have problems with the gyro light which was set up on function one leads because when I turn on the gyrolight the horn also blows. I can't help but think wistfully of how the "skulduggery" of NCE behind the scenes makes this all go away. If the system was messing with registers other than the advanced consist I'd agree but I'd be quite willing to let the command station use some intelligence when creating/operating/deleting consists. Oops... there's no signs of intelligent life in the digitrax consist management. No, I think NCE has the consisting right. It's just the frightfully awkward radio protocol leading to spotty communication that's the issue with them. But of course I'm a highly experienced NCE user having run the CBHW from Eugene to Roseberg one time as an engineer so be sure to pay great heed to what I say.  Whatever... Charlie Superintendent of Department of Blather Creation The Bear Creek and South Jackson Railway Co. Hillsboro, OR Bigwig Bear Creek & South Jackson Railway Co. http://www.bcsjrr.com | ||
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| NYNH&H |
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 Registered Member #552 Joined: Mon Nov 13 2006, 02:17PM: posts: 349 | Charlie, the grass always looks greener on the other side. Just be happy with the world's best DCC system, and eargerly await the new 2.4ghz two-way radio system, if that sort of thing interests you. BTW, you will be able to send DT400s in have have them converted to DT402s. Not sure about converting UT4s to UT42s. | ||
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| JeffShultz |
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  Registered Member #6 Joined: Wed Dec 08 2004, 09:30PM: posts: 582 | Hey Charlie.... just to counter the Digitrax enthusiast above me... "throttle slots." Jeff Shultz Willamette & Pacific - Oregon Electric Branch W&P RR Photo Gallery | ||
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| joef |
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   Registered Member #3 Joined: Wed Dec 08 2004, 09:01PM: posts: 2112 | Yes, all together now, for Charlie's sake ... T-h-r-o-t-t-l-e S-l-o-t-s  [ Edited Tue Sep 18 2007, 11:14PM ] Joe Fugate http://siskiyou-railfan.net - 200,000 hits and counting!  In video ... | ||
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| Jack W. Lajoie |
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 Registered Member #679 Joined: Fri Jul 20 2007, 10:53AM: posts: 27 | I agree with you Joe when you say the maths involved to find the decimal value of CV17 and CV18 is much more than simple additions or divisions. I made myself a simple 3 cells worksheet to do those calculations. Maybe it is just me, but I need to know what goes on behind the scene when it comes to decoders programming. Like I said knowing what goes on when programming a long address along with an understanding of CV29, is an invaluable asset when it comes to troubleshooting stubborn sound decoders. I did save the day of many operators in direct programming these 3 CVs in the past. Knowing what goes at the bits level of CV19, it becomes crystal clear why advance consists address cannot exceed 127 and knowing the purpose of CV19 bit seven, it becomes second nature to add 128 to the address in order to reverse the normal direction of travel. Same goes with CV21 and CV22. When someone knows why the default value for CV21 is 255, it becomes easy to tailor that CV at will to define what functions F1 to F8 will be under the control of the consist address. It is then a matter of basic binary to decimal conversion. With CV22 it is exactly the same thing, when you know why the default value is 63, you can control the lighting under the consist address along with function F9 to F12 A word of caution though, not all decoders follows exactly the NMRA recommendations for CV21 CV22. Is it overkill, maybe when all goes as advertised, it becomes handy when things goes haywire. To me knowing what goes on behind the scene is as much model railroading as running trains or building a layout. [ Edited Wed Sep 19 2007, 10:08AM ] Jack W. | ||
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| KnuT |
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| Registered Member #27 Joined: Thu Dec 09 2004, 11:00AM: posts: 208 | I do agree that the consist management of NCE is far better than universal consist, and I do hope that a. Digitrax come up with a similar method on new throttles or comandstations or b. JMRI makes this work with Digitrax with help of the "Consist Tool" Joe, will Charlies old decoders (probably without the possibility of advanced consisting) work with the NCEs doubled ended consisting? Charlie, what kind of decoders are in the A units. If they are old Digitrax with 9 pin harness, it should not be difficult to retrofit them with newer decoders, if the problem with the old decoders is the ability of advanced consisting. Because it must be able to set up doubled-ended consists even on a Digitrax-layout???? And - the NCE has a button for "kill consist" which make it easy if you want to bring your locos to an other layout? [ Edited Wed Sep 19 2007, 10:16AM ] regards KnuT see my blog on The Peavine and Santa Fe: | ||
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| bear creek |
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| Registered Member #305 Joined: Wed Feb 01 2006, 01:57PM: posts: 342 | Throttle slots????? Arghhhhhhh! Throttle slots were the most motivating reason for dislike of digitrax. That and the pain in the gluteous maximus mechanism for clearing them which also cleared all the consists out of the base station. (and before you say it NYNH&H I was already in 120 slot mode). One of the problems with having visiting operators bring their own throttles is they plug 'em in, they take ownership of a bunch of locos, then they unplug and leave, but the throttle slot usage lingers on... JMRI was a blessing (as if provided by God Himself) in that it COVIENIENTLY allows viewing of current throttle slot status and recovery of a "jammed" throttle slot (one where new throttles are unable to grab a locomotive). JMRI has made digitrax livable for me (if not a system I can adore - but I don't think there is a system I can 'adore'). But if the JMRI folks made a consist tool for digitrax that would be another major blessing for me. With regard to the other question about my decoders having advanced consisting - they are digitrax DH-121 and DH-140s. They do have advanced consisting (you'd have to be neolithic before a decoder is missing that feature) but they don't have the ability to set function directionality when in advanced consist mode. But for those MU'd RSC-2 (Katos - yumm!) I've just gotten a pair of newer NCE decoders that do have this feature so at least the backup light of the lead unit won't be irradiating the nose of the other unit when going backward. The A-B-A set of F7's presents a different problem. Since there are no backup lights on an Funit (at least I don't recall seeing any) directional lighting isn't the issue. Instead the problem is sharing the F1 function button between the decoders in the A (driving the motors) and the B unit (soundtrax DSX). The B unit needs to be the lead unit in a Universal consist if its going to answer to the DSX function buttons (horn, bell, dynamic brakes, etc) but I wanted the head light and gyra-light on different functions (headlights don't 'flash' but gyralights do - hard to do both at once). Perhaps soundtrax or someone else will make a F-unit sound decoder with enought amps to drive two stewarts, plus dual built in lighting functions (with fwd and rev). Then I'll permanently couple 'em together and use one decoder for the set. Or get a newer decoder for the A units that will allow mapping the gyra lights to F9 so it doesn't sit on a soundtrax decoder function. It would be nice to have back-emf controlled sound so the notching matchs motion better but I'm not holding my breath. FWIW Charlie Superintendent of Nearly Everything The Bear Creek and South Jackson Railway Co. Hillsboro, OR Bigwig Bear Creek & South Jackson Railway Co. http://www.bcsjrr.com | ||
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| Denny |
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 Registered Member #21 Joined: Thu Dec 09 2004, 07:20AM: posts: 404 | joef said ... Denny: The short answer is yes, the NCE advanced consist lets you select the loco address as the consist. You can select the loco number of either end and that end becomes the front. It works just like the double-ended consists in video 3, except only better! Thank you Joe, It's a lot better and easier. After you set up a consist you just have to run your lash-up  Denny Saronno, VA - Italy http://www.sp-coastline.com | ||
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| Denny |
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| Registered Member #21 Joined: Thu Dec 09 2004, 07:20AM: posts: 404 | 190216624=Jack W. Lajoie said ... Maybe it is just me, but I need to know what goes on behind the scene when it comes to decoders programming. Like I said knowing what goes on when programming a long address along with an understanding of CV29, is an invaluable asset when it comes to troubleshooting stubborn sound decoders. I did save the day of many operators in direct programming these 3 CVs in the past. Jack, I understand it's nice to know what happens in a decoder chip, like what value is actually written in a CV. This because a little knowledge in CV programming is helpful when something goes wrong. The beauty of NCE consisting is you can set up and advance consist in a few seconds without having to worry about what's behind. However, you're not forced to follow those steps; if you don't like this approach you can always set up a consist by manually put values into CV 19, 21 and 22 (and whatever CV is involved is this process). Or, you can set up a consist NCE style, and then read back the values the "wizard method" wrote in CVs. Other command stations simply don't give you BOTH choices. Denny Saronno, VA - Italy http://www.sp-coastline.com | ||
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| Jack W. Lajoie |
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| Registered Member #679 Joined: Fri Jul 20 2007, 10:53AM: posts: 27 | denny said ... Jack, I understand it's nice to know what happens in a decoder chip, like what value is actually written in a CV. This because a little knowledge in CV programming is helpful when something goes wrong. The beauty of NCE consisting is you can set up and advance consist in a few seconds without having to worry about what's behind. However, you're not forced to follow those steps; if you don't like this approach you can always set up a consist by manually put values into CV 19, 21 and 22 (and whatever CV is involved is this process). Or, you can set up a consist NCE style, and then read back the values the "wizard method" wrote in CVs. Other command stations simply don't give you BOTH choices. Denny, I sure can't argue to that. Jack W. | ||
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